The Difference Between a PUA and a Naturally Attractive Man Leigh (LoGun) Alpha Males 56 Comments You’re here because you want to be naturally attractive to women. I get it. You want to live your life, on your terms, doing what you want, and have the women you desire be attracted to you for it. That’s great. It’s why I’m here as well. I also get that you don’t want to run that manipulative shit that the seduction community teaches. So what should you do? How do you attract the women you want without resorting to the deceptive tactics of the seduction community? Do you just stand there, fart in her general direction and hope she comes running? Well, you could. I don’t know how well it would work, but you could try it. (If you do, write in a let me know how you went) So, here’s what you can do to attract women without the bullshit. As you’ll see, it’s exactly the same actions that the seduction community teaches but there’s a core difference. As you’re reading through, see if you can pick it. It’s this subtle difference that separates the fake PUA from the naturally attractive Man. And don’t worry if you can’t pick it, I’ll spill the beans at the end of the article. So, without further ado… The Difference Between The PUA And The Naturally Attractive Man Approaching A PUA approaches because he’s following the 3 second rule and promised his mates he’d do 7 sets tonight. A naturally attractive Man approaches because he sees a woman he wants to talk to and doesn’t let something like anxiety or other peoples judgements stop him from living the life he wants. Opening A PUA uses a openers to break the ice and transition into conversation. A naturally attractive Man says what he’s thinking because he’s thinking it. Banter A PUA banters and vibes with her because he’s read that you have to do attraction before you move into rapport. If a naturally attractive Man banters with her, it’s because he’s in a playful mood and wants to play around. DHV’s A PUA DHV’s so he can try and impress the girl and get her to be attract to him. A naturally attractive Man just talks about his life. It happens to be quite impressive because he’s not afraid of putting himself out there and living his life on his terms. This could seem like DHVing to a PUA but he’s just sharing himself because he like just being himself. Qualification A PUA qualifies women because he’s trying to find a way to convince her that he’s interested in something other than her looks. A naturally attractive Man qualifies because he has standards in his life and isn’t willing to compromise on them. Passing Tests A PUA has a series of tricks and techniques to pass her tests because he knows that he needs to appear strong for her to sleep with him. A naturally attractive Man passes her tests without even noticing that she’s testing him because he just keeps doing what he wants to, regardless of what she thinks. Comfort A PUA the moves into comfort because he knows that he needs to build a connection because attraction is fleeting. A naturally attractive Man decides that he wants to know more about a girl so asks leading questions that get her to open up. If he has something to share about himself, then he shares it as well. The Next Step A PUA is stuck in his head trying to come up with the right thing to say and the right structure to follow because he’s trying to work out how to get her to sleep with him. A naturally attractive Man is just doing what he knows to be right, when he wants to do it, because he’s not trying to hide anything or trick her into anything. Leading A PUA does ‘leading’ because he’s thinks it’s an easy way to isolate and demonstrate leadership skills. A naturally attractive Man leads because he knows what he enjoys and wants to take her on a journey. Kino A PUA does ‘kino’ because he knows that a physical connection makes it easier to transition to sex. A naturally attractive Man touches a woman because he thinks she’s attractive and isn’t afraid to connect physically with her. Escalation A PUA escalates when he see’s that there sufficient comfort and attraction to transition. A naturally attractive Man escalates when he wants to dial up the tension because that what he enjoys. Implementation A PUA does what the script says he should do, when it says he should do it, regardless if it’s appropriate for her or enjoyable for him. A naturally attractive Man does what he wants, when it feels appropriate, because that’s when it’s going to be the most rewarding. Her Response A PUA is needy and clingy because he needs positive responses to feel good about himself. A naturally attractive Man is independent and confident because he feels good, regardless of her response. Monitoring A PUA is constantly analysing her to find out if he’s doing the right thing. A naturally attractive Man is constantly monitoring her to see if she’s the kind of woman he wants in his life. Perception A PUA worries about what she’s thinking about him. A naturally attractive Man worries about what he thinks about her. The Core Difference The core difference here is that the PUA is focussing on trying to get something from her and the naturally attractive Man is focussing on trying to create something. The PUA is trying to get sex / acceptance / validation / power from women. The naturally attractive Man is trying to create the life he wants. Because the PUA is trying to get her attracted to him so he can get sex / validation / power / acceptance, he’s needy, outcome dependent, and unsure of himself. Because the naturally attractive Man is focussed on creating the world he wants, he centred, focussed, and 100% sure of himself. Both pathways lead to similar actions but the HUGE difference is in the sub-communication of the actions. The PUA is clingy, needy, outcome dependent, and looking for a positive reponse to feel good. This is communicated through all his actions. The naturally attractive Man is strong, powerful, and confident and this is communicated through all his actions. Guess what kind of an impact that has on the outcome… The PUA mindest of ‘trying to get something from her’ is actually the reason that most guys come to the seduction community in the first place. They try and come up with ways to get sex / validation / acceptance from women and fail. The seduction community teaches the tricks and tools to disguise their neediness and they use it to fool gullible women long enough to get them to sleep with them. It doesn’t actually solve the real issue though – the fact they’re trying to use women to feel better about themselves / their life. Is The Path Of The Naturally Attractive Man For You? If you’re still unsure whether this path is for you, then consider this: What would be different if you focussed on being naturally attractive (living your life on your terms and creating the life you want) rather than trying to do attraction (following a set of tricks and techniques to pretend you’re someone you’re not)? What would change about the way you move around a club? What would change about the where you focus when you’re talking to a woman? What would change about the way you look at women? What would change about the way you talk to women? What would change about the way you think around women? What would change about the way you feel around women? If you can’t see any benefit in working on becoming a naturally attractive Man then I wish you well on your PUA journey. But, if it any time, you get sick of the bullshit, fake, manipulative games that you’re being taught to do, please come back and read this post again. You might find the missing piece of the puzzle. If you decide that becoming a naturally attractive Man is the direction you want to go, then your next step is to download Seduction Community Sucks from directly below. Join over 25,000 subcribersDownload your FREE copy of Seduction Community Sucks now and get in-field videos, subscriber-only articles, and exclusive podcasts delivered directly to your inbox If you're ready to become the kind of Man that attracts confident and in-demand women without trying, then I have a gift to start you on that journey. Seduction Community Sucks is your 159 page kick-start to becoming the kind of Man that makes women go weak at the knees. Get your FREE copy, as well as access to other subscriber-only articles, podcasts, and video footage, now. Get your FREE ebook, hidden articles, in-field videos, and exclusive podcasts here: 56 Responses Josef November 30, 2011 So, the thing and secret of for life and all is just be you in the most powerfull and expresive way in all the moments… These is the most simple and most incredible deep philosophy that I ever do jaja… But Leigh, is not so easy do that in in real live, there are lots of deep fears and anxiety for be you all the time, thats what I see and feel.. Nice day to everyone!!!!!!!!! Reply Leigh (LoGun) November 30, 2011 It’s as easy or as hard as you make it Joesf. The only place that judgements or fears hold you back is in your mind. There’s nothing physically harder about walking towards a woman than there is walking away from her. There’s nothing physically harder about saying ‘I’m not going to approach her’ than there is saying ‘Hi, I really wanted to meet you’. You’re the one making it hard. The question you need to deal with is ‘why am I making this hard for myself?’ Reply Mariano December 1, 2011 That’s something great to have always in mind. J. Martinez December 4, 2011 I remember when I really started to become dissatisfied with PUA. I had been able to date women and even get married, well before I became aware of PUA community. I remember reading PUA work (M.M. D.Y.D. R.S.D, etc…) and realizing that whenever I had created attraction between myself and a woman in the past, then I seemed to have done PUA strategies and theories naturally. But, the moment I tried to use PUA theories and strategies it never guaranteed attraction. So I came up with this handy little Maxim/syllogism… “All ducks have bills and webbed feet, but not all animals with bills and webbed feet are ducks.” Or… All interactions where successful attraction has been created used PUA theories/strategies, but not all interactions where attraction is desired need the use of PUA theories/strategies. For a while there, I actually used to feel like I would NEVER attract women because I did not understand all the PUA theories. It was like PUA theories = attraction. So, if I wanted to feel the attraction of women, then PUA strategies where the ONLY way. Despite the fact that my own experience proved otherwise (that is, I had not needed PUA to attract women in the past) the PUA community and my own desperate neediness made it seem like PUA was only one way and that because I had not “discovered” the hidden languages of attraction I would be destined to be unattractive for ever. Thankfully I found AI and reconnected with my naturally attractive self… Skeptical March 18, 2012 I think you are missing the point of this here. I am an advocate of PUA. Whether you like it or not, it definitely gives you structure. I can explain why things have went wrong now, it has given me confidence and belief and have greatly improved from years ago – I aim to be natural with a PU underpinning, but that is for the future. I don’t get all these people who knock pick up. If its not for you fine, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t work at all. Reply Leigh (LoGun) March 18, 2012 Thanks for your comment. I appreciate seeing other peoples points of view. Don’t get me wrong, you can DEFINITELY get more women by following the PUA path. But there are two things I would like you to consider as you’re going down that path. 1. If you’re only attracting women by being better at deceiving them (which is what PUA’s do), what kind of women are you going to attract? Ones that are either gullible enough to fall for your deception or lonely and insecure enough to not care. 2. When you decided that you wanted to be better with women, was the image that you had in your head of this ‘success’, you, stuck in your head, trying to come up with the right tactic or technique for the every possible scenario or was it you being open, real, honest, and genuine and having women attracted to you for it? The reason I want you to consider this is that there is a way to become incredibly attractive to women, where you get to do what you want, when you want to, and have confident, strong, and radiant women want to be with you, in a way that doesn’t involve any manipulation, analysis, or deception. You don’t need to be a PUA to decode what you did wrong. It’s far more straight forward than you think: you didn’t make her feel the way she wanted to. You were either too needy, clingy, outcome dependent, or too stuck in your head to see what she needed. If you can change that around, if you can take your focus away from ‘what step should I be executing’ and put it on ‘How can I help her feel the way she wants to feel?’, then I’m sure that magical things will happen for you my friend. Good luck. Reply ATP August 10, 2013 PUA is not and have nothing about deceiving. PUA is about self improvement so you can get whatever you want, not only sexy women to have sex with them. Changing your way of life and living and telling it, it’s not lie, then nobody is deceiving no one. PUAs are natural, but uses the power of the never ever reproduced super computer he has in his head (PUAs are humans :D). PUAs don’t imagine each situation, they create it in field at the moment of interaction (excess of information is unuseful). PUA will never disappoint someone since it is done faultlessly, negative vibe is not welcome in PUA, especially because it can turn against yourself and PUAs always want the best success as possible. PUAs master psychology, so you NEED to be a PUA to know what you really did wrong and help women be happier faster (I really wouldn’t like to see lots of women becoming sad because of a natural that does not know what he does wrong because he can’t spot anything incorrect). PUAs are naturals, they just think before acting, so they can make the interaction the best as possible (PUAs want the woman to be happy, everyone seeks happiness, then a PUA DOES help a woman to “feel the way she wants to feel”, even better than naturals). A PUA is also always in peace inside his mind, because [differently from the natural], he makes the things happen, so he does not need to be looking around to find a good vibe, PUAs create their own vibe. If you did not have success with PUA, start with inner game first, then I’m sure that magical things will help you my friend. Good Luck. jeff karser December 23, 2013 PUA theory’s aren’t psychological studies done through popular professional researches. Howver I do believe that they can help. But I do not believe that the “guarantees” and the “secrets” are completely accurate. If ANYONE knew how to completely “seduce” the complexity of the human mind then they could possibly contain the power to control the mind to do what ever they want. They could MANIPULATE the mind. Psychology is a field that is growing in knowledge. The human mind is extremely complex(many people think computer science is complicated, imagine neuroscience + computer science) a theory is a theory because it cannot be proven[ as of now 😉 ]. If I had any advice to the mass population I would say “Study Books in body language, Study the author Carnegie and ‘how to win friends and influence people'” BUT PLEASE READ THIS: if you have opinion against mine, comment so that we can continue discussing this because i love hearing differences in opinions because they help me learn the most =] BYE haha J.D. August 15, 2012 I used to be an enthusiastic PUA basher as well. That is, PUA meaning the inauthentic, “fake it til you make it” outer game tactics. But does that mean ALL outer game is useless? There are things you can do to improve how you show up in the world that don’t involve deception. They can make a BIG difference. Clearly, the inner stuff needs to get handled in order for the outer stuff to matter. But that doesn’t mean that you only deal with the inner stuff, and then you’re good to go. I think you have to work on both at the same time. Reply Leigh (LoGun) August 15, 2012 I definitely agree that there are way you can improve the way you communicate with others and express yourself. I’ve learned many fun and intersting things from improv over the years that have made my life much more fun and interesting. But, in my expereince, I see two limitations with going down this path: 1. Unless you have you’re coming from a place of love, respect, and happiness, all the outer-game techniques in the world wont do you any good because your anger, frustration, insecurity, and fear will shine through behind your words. 2. When you have your inner ‘stuff’ sorted, the way you communicate and express yourself tends to change dramatically anyway. Most guys become FAR more expressive, open, free, engaging, exciting, fun, and powerful without having to learn any outer game techniques. So, in my expereince, whilst yes, there are lots of cool and fun outer-game techninques you can learn, for most guys, they’re either a waste of time because they eitehr wont make a difference or unnecessary. Reply Tothersider January 23, 2013 I think that at the heart of this is disempowerment. A lot of men cannot act from a position of choosiness as outlined in this article because they have not been in a position to be able to make a choice. Finding _a_ woman is hard enough for such men, nevermind choosing to disqualify her thereafter. It reminds me of exhortations to “be more confident” at work, when I was beginning a new career, which was pointless advice because it is impossible to be confident when you don’t really know what you’re doing. This is a classic feedback loop. You need bad relationships and some career success and some idea of how to reach potential mates to obtain the confidence to know what you’re looking for, and be that sort of choosey. But because men peak in their mid-thirties, by the time this is figured out, and you work out that you do have some power, it is sometimes too late, and you’re locked into something less than satisfactory already. Cue the so-called “midlife crisis”. I think young men need to know about the power disparity with women of their own age, so that they are not blindsided or surprised by it. Society doesn’t mention it. They also need to know that there is no hurry – Internet dating solved that problem neatly, such that if you are prepared to compromise, and you do have some things going for you, you _will_ find someone with a vagina who is willing to use it with you within a week or two. Those two things, combined, should help short circuit the “can’t get in” feedback loop of feelings of helplessness, resentment and desperation that a lot of young men feel with regard to young women. In some ways, this reflects the job industry requiring experience before you can get the job that would give you that experience. The result is that a few genetic lottery winners don’t even really have to try, and the rest are left wondering why they’re bothering to try. Reply Leigh (LoGun) January 24, 2013 A lot of men cannot act from this mindset because they still haven’t faced the very simple barriers that drive women away. They’re still needy. They’re still whingy. They’re still dissatisfied with their life and have nothing to offer women and so they try talk to them. Attracting women isn’t hard, it’s not complicated. It doesn’t require hundreds of different steps and tacctics, but what it does require is that you face up to your own issues and deal with them like a Man. The problem isn’t that you don’t have success with women and therefore, don’t have any confidence with them. The problem here is that you’re trying to base your confidence off your relationships with women and because you don’t have success, you have no confidence. The feedback loop exists in your head. Not in the real world. And because you’re relying on it, you’re struggling. Reply Tothersider January 24, 2013 I don’t agree. It is possible to have a lot of confidence in yourself, and belief in what you prefer, have strong opinions, a good job, inner security and so forth, yet still be unable to work out exactly what is expected with regard to the crazy dating scene. A lot of the battle is finding someone who is actually looking or available, which is why I find it odd that the online dating scene is rubbished a bit in another article. At least these people are looking, so chances improve dramatically right then and there. You can be a secure man, yet lack basic social skills, an understanding of where to find women in an increasingly isolated society, or be bamboozled by for instance a club culture where there’s no opportunity to talk to women, because the music is too loud. Then wonder at the superficiality of it all, and find out from sites like this that it really is all your fault. I think some recognition of the tectonic shifts that have occurred over the last few decades, and that the system is still stumbling to deal with, would be good. The effect of the pill, condoms, porn, Facebook and online dating has turned the dating world upside down. Telling men the problem is all their side ignores that the environment and women are pretty imperfect too, and somehow we all just shuffle on as best we can. Reply Leigh (LoGun) January 24, 2013 Thanks for taking the time to respond mate. I appreciate hearing your thoughts. If you’re thinking them, then I’m going to guess there’s more guys out there thinking the exact same thing. There’s a theme that I’m seeing in your recent comments that I thought I would call out here – just in case you weren’t aware of it. I may be completely wrong, I may be WAY off target, but as it seems real to me, I thought I’d share it. What you’re writing says to me is that at the moment, you feel frustrated with your lack of success with women, you want more success women in your life, and you think what’s really holding you back is your lack of information and understanding about attraction and seduction. Is that right? I just want to make sure we’re both on the same page here. Once again, I’m not saying this is true, but it’s just what I’m seeing. Reply Tothersider January 30, 2013 Ironically, I got married in a registry office on Friday, so cannot complain… Again, I’m not really projecting – I genuinely think that the West is facing major political and economic problems due to this stuff. You want a real revolution? Change the birthrate! How can you do that? Get your young women educated and pursuing careers during their most fertile years. Introduce contraception and abortion to allow them to bring a male gameplan to the dating scene, then watch the men become confused. Then give the men unlimited porn to fall back on during their twenties if finding someone real seems all too hard. Finally, cross your fingers that the two genders are able to hook up in the small window left before the body clocks say “time’s up”. Bring popcorn. The statistics tell a tale, and are pretty grim, which is why what you’re doing is important. It’s all a bit dysfunctional, but I think there are some ideas for articles for you in there. “Before you turn to porn” could be the title of one of them, because I guarantee that a good deal of your readership uses it as a surrogate for a real relationship. A lot of this stuff is basically just the world being the world. Why can’t people talk in clubs? Because club managers know that people who talk less, drink more. They don’t care that the girl can’t hear you. And I do believe that the reason a lot of your readers experience difficulty is that a lot of the population at any one time simply isn’t looking. Online dating solves that problem neatly, which is solid gold. If they’re on there, then by definition at least they’re looking. Reply PUA March 27, 2013 This is so stupid. You’re saying the only difference is that the PUA learned the skill of being an attractive man from pick up artist and is able to replicate his success and the natural is an idiot who gets lucky from time to time. Approaching PUA teaches you to talk to woman you want to talk to with out fear. Opening Everybody uses scripts whether they like it or not. PUAs are aware of this. Banter PUA teach you to be more playful (you’re saying if you were not raised like that you should just not be like that? Go fuck yourself) DHV’s PUA teaches you to be more attractive as a whole (sounds like evil stuff to me) Qualification PUA teaches you to have standards (if you don’t then your just fucked in your nice alternative world) Passing Tests PUA teaches you that there are tests (sorry we know your secrets go become a lesbian to get away from the men that understand how you work) I’m done you get the point. Maybe you girls should grow pair and approach men. You’re seriously going to hate on the men working on becoming attractive to you? Are you retarded? P.s. stop playing the victim card we are not buying it woman are just as manipulative as men did you know 1 in 10 kids is raised by a man that’s not his father? Oh wait no you guys are forced to cheat by the bad men because you are completely incapable of taking any responsibility for your actions. Reply Leigh (LoGun) March 28, 2013 I’m not sure that you read the article through my friend. I didn’t say that at all. I said the core difference between the natural and the PUA isn’t the action that he takes, it’s the underlying motivation behind the action. And it’s that motivation that determines all the issues that the PUA faces. There’s no hate on anyone in this article, it’s just pointing out a difference and then presenting an option to go one way or the other. Is that not clear? Reply sarabellum June 19, 2017 The natural, every man has one in his family, can read about one in literature, and can see one on the screen- irrespective of time or culture. Lord Byron, Shelly, Bacon, etc, via their poetry (and plays) criticize women’s sexual hypocrisy and craven men. In China, Li Bai’s poems (and the anonymous love poems) are the manual for men and women to be honest with their feelings. In the Spanish speaking world men and women must make a declaration (declararse) of attraction to the other, with a mandatory yes or no answer to, “¿Me gustas [literally you please me]. ¿Quieres ser mi novio/a?” [do you want to be my boyfriend/girlfriend]. If that and folk songs like “Yo quiero ser” and “Se me olvidó tu nombre,” are not sufficient guidance for the natural man and woman, the films with Pedro Armendariz such “Enamorada,” make it crystal clear. That crystal clarity is that the man is expressing his desire forcefully to the woman, and she is put on the spot to return his feelings or get out of his face. The entire time the natural is enjoying his power exchange with the woman, seeing how she is flipped into wooing him, him: “your way of being attracts me. Come away with me.” Her: “no one has talked to me like that. Your eyes look into me. I don’t know what to say.” Your youthful frustration blinds you to what you must become. All naturals have been through ordeals in their lives hardening them, and making them intolerant to women’s silly games and rationalizing. The natural has heard it all before. The natural sees when a woman is a narcissistic child vs. a woman with the confidence to express her desire to him. He gets rid of the former and seeks out the latter. You are already a natural because you question things critically and can express your disagreement. Be that same way with women. The narcissist females throws up silly tests to seek out punks for her entertainment. PUA’s train themselves to focus on those harpees. The natural is not a seducer first, but rather is man first the result of focus, commitment, and sheer will to achieve his larger aims. Be that man. Reply PUA March 27, 2013 I’m going to find the girl I want and have the life with her that we want with a good amount of sexual experience and a well built life. Keep being mad at men 😉 Reply Christian April 18, 2013 I just want to comment here that I see how Leigh tries to explain something that is absolutely misunderstood In the last comment, simply as if we were talking here in a completely different language, that is something I was thinking about lately , being the real deal , being the real man is something that can never be fake it, as I read the last comment I can feel the anger, frustration and aggression that is preventing the PUA from becoming a real man ( please, I mean no offence ) I am sure PUA has a different understanding of what being a man could be or could not be but the reality is that a real man never fakes anything… he is real and authentic and that is the reason he is not trying to create attraction because HE IS THE ATRACTION, it is not something he has to show or get, it is part of what he is… there is a special requirement to be able to understand what Leigh is talking about, somehow there has to be a change inside, some kind of wiliness a desire or we just have to reach a turning point in our lives. Yes it’s ok to have a few techniques but in my case I keep on forgetting them because they are just not much important anymore. I achieve a lot better results not caring about them, The mental energy that we have to use to use them is too much in comparison to what we can do if we use that energy in another direction. What many people don’t see is that most of part of this huge amount of technics information, seminaries CDs DVs workshops, boots camps etc. in the community are there because there is a need for something to sell not because it is in reality what we need, and they are being sold just like any other product in the sex industry… by moving your primal instincts and deep desires …. If they were to tell you that all you have to do is to work only yourself from yourself and to yourself and that the best training on seduction and picking up women doesn’t have to do with women at all than nobody would be making money here. Reply Aquatavros August 6, 2013 Blasphemy. Most of “PUAs” as you call it join the community not because they want to lay as many women a week as they humanly can. They want to build the life they want, but don’t always know how. Some want to meet that one woman of their dreams to spend the rest of their lives with. Some just don’t feel like that and want to have fun. Some want to overcome their inhibitions. Regardless of the intent, the community makes its members better men. Those very “naturally attractive men”. On in some few cases – women. And trust me, I’ve seen enough “naturally attractive” ones who screw up badly simply by lacking the understanding of how to calibrate his relationship with a woman, resulting in broken hearts or worse – broken marriages. Reply Ezra May 10, 2014 It was a NAM that broke up my marriage. this punk kid reads something then takes my wife and convinces her that she shouldnt destroy her life by being with someone because she voed it in some courthouse. i haven’t seen my own kids and she left me because i got kidney disease and he showed her that she shouldn’t sacrifice her dreams because of her dying husband. now i sit alone dying from kidney failure as my kidneys shut down slowly, i will face my greatest fear – dying alone. Reply Voltano September 8, 2015 Dude, I feel for you. I also fear of dying alone. Although I’ve never been married, but I’ve been created on before. But I’ve also been on the other side of the fence. I’ve had relationships with multiple married women. And I noticed something in my endeavours: all of them ‘wants’ to cheat. If it’s not me, it’s gonna be somebody else. Trust me on this. The fault lies with the cheater. My point is, she’s not worth it. She betrayed you. She doesn’t care about you. You deserve someone better. I don’t know if you’ll find someone who truly loves you, as I can’t predict the future. But I also haven’t found someone to spend my life with in all 30 years I’m on this Earth. For all I know, I might die alone. Probably not now, probably not tomorrow. But I don’t know if today I’m gonna be hit by a car on my way home. All in all, I can only say this: I feel you. Stay strong, brother. Reply Vallin SFAS June 4, 2014 And THEN there’s the RockStar-MOJO-Hoochee-Coochee-MAXIMUMSEXANDROCKANDROLL-MAN…C’est MOI! Reply Saph July 7, 2014 Women are fast becoming aware of the Pick up artist techniques. There is too much material freely available that many women are reading and learning to. Natural men are not perfect and neither are the women. That is what has brought this species to this time and place. Too many people are getting involved and destroying naturally built relationships with some idealised fairytale that won’t last a decade. It will be so sad when all parents can tell their children is ‘Well I met your dad when he was deploying a 3 second approach rule and I was the 4th girl out of a possible 7 approaches he had to do that night. I knew from his words, posture and moves that he was from the pick up community. He isolated me and pressurised me, saying no one would ever know if we slept together. Too bad I was too drunk to make him wear a condom’. Reply jonas August 21, 2014 there is no such man as a natural, some guys just undstand woman better because of random experiences. naturals basicly bang hot chicks aswell as ugly ones most of the time. puas go for their type of girl and they are professional in dating just like you can get professinal at anything with hard study. and you need practise… the so called naturals bow to you as they see you doing the job. Reply Jessica November 26, 2014 I just want to say, from a female point of view, that this sounds every bit as manipulative to me as PUA, and in fact, still contains its worst aspects. A) It’s all about whether you get us into bed, and get the option for a relationship if you want it, not about our feelings afterwards B) It’s not about our feelings at all, it’s all about you. Stop using us to masturbate and have a RELATIONSHIP. C) It runs totally counter to what LOVE actually is, and nowhere in it to you mention honesty with the woman about what you’re looking for and what you’re not looking for in a relationship. Still just as manipulative, just easier….on guys. The more you mistreat women with all this manipulative action, the bigger you make your own problems, and the less happy we’re all going to be. Where’s character? Where’s ethics? Where’s how to the be the man she’s going to want to have children with — if that’s what you’re into, and how to be really clear about it if you aren’t (clue: it’s not all about your outside packaging). Where’s how to know the difference between “I don’t want that,” and “I don’t want that NOW?” Where’s not classifying women as “hot” or “ugly” or “up to your standards” or “not up to your standards” just because you do or don’t feel chemistry? If you’re attracted ask her out, if not, don’t. It’s been a while? You need sex? Go on OKCupid and say you just want to hook up, there are women who will answer. Or use your hands, that’s why God gave ’em to you, but don’t make yourself someone else’s pain to suit yourselves. In fact, if you value your soul or even think you have one, DON’T. A guy who doesn’t really find us pretty trying to sleep with us does us no favors. We don’t look at this like you do. And because you don’t think someone meets your special standards, that means you have to make a sweeping value judgment about a person that would hurt her if she could hear it (rating her by numbers, calling her ugly even if not to her face, calling women “fatties”?). How crappy of a person that makes you (the PUAs do this, and this page mentions nothing about it being important to be a decent guy who wouldn’t do that). Reply Leigh November 26, 2014 Hi Jessica, thanks for your detailed reply. It sounds as though you’re passionate about this so it’s good to hear your thoughts. Hearing other peoples opinions is the only way to truly understand if you’ve delivered your message effectively. It took me a little while to understand exactly what you were trying to communicate here but I think I’ve worked out why this article doesn’t contain all the things you wanted to see. The reason they’re not in there is that’s not what the article is about. This isn’t about how to create beautiful relationships with women or things you should do when you first meet a woman. The point of the article is to highlight the difference between a PUA and a naturally attractive man: the motivation of their actions. There are numerous other articles scattered throughout the site that are more focussed on the elements you’re talking about. This one might be closer to what your’e looking for and give you a stronger idea of our philosophy here: http://attractioninstitute.com/are-you-a-boy-or-a-man-your-20-point-checklist/ Have a read and let me know what you think. Thanks again for your contribution. Reply Matt Roveberg November 27, 2014 I saw all the same things. You’re the KFC of PUAs… for people who don’t wanna go to McDonalds. You’re trying to catch all the run-off from the PUA industry, and essentially you’re just painting yourself a different color. I used to use the same technique as a PUA. I’d make sure that women knew I wasn’t like those terrible PUAs and that I was a more sensitive, feminist option. I was still manipulative, and so are you, Leigh Leigh November 27, 2014 Interesting that you say that mate – and that you believe the motivations and stories you told yourself and women are the same ones that we’re telling others. What makes you believe that we’re manipulative? I’m very curious to know. J.D. November 27, 2014 It is manipulative, but it’s manipulative of MEN, because it tells them what they want to hear: that doing what they want, regardless of what others think, makes them more attractive, rather than less. In reality, unless “what they want” is considered cool or closely follows social norms, it makes them a weirdo outcast and female repellent. Best example? Nerds. I’m all for being natural and authentic, but men need to keep in mind that only certain flavors of natural authenticity sell well with women. Matt Roveberg November 27, 2014 I send PUAs here to show them the difference between being a loser creep and being a regular human being. But I wouldn’t recommend anyone throw good money after bad trying to get MORE attraction advice. Men need advice on how to live their lives FIRST, because their mummas didn’t raise them right and society put a bunch of patriarchal nonsense in their heads. Reply Toronto coach March 20, 2015 Men need advice on how to find their purpose in life. That’s it. Reply Leigh March 20, 2015 And that’s what you teach in 15+ hours of of infield training and 6 hours of debriefing? Reply zub March 31, 2015 I like the material so far. Hoprfully the eBook is good. Thanks for your hard work Reply AMR August 16, 2015 The problem with PUA’s is that they don’t take submissive women into consideration. I’m not talking dom/subs either. I mean submissive in the traditional sense. PUA’s want women to throw themselves at them. I’m a submissive woman and it’s not in my nature to throw myself at any man no matter how attracted to him I am. I just cannot do it. It just does not happen. I actually lose my sexual desire imaging myself initiating the first sexual act or acting as the dominant partner. I have fantasies that are of a submissive nature. PUA’s and I are sexually incompatible so I have no interest in having sexual relations with one of them. I think that there are a few other ladies like me out there and PUA’s just frustrate us. Reply Brendan August 20, 2015 It would be nice if anything you said were actually true. Women aren’t attracted to inherently valuable characteristics. When I live my life the way I want, I get ignored by women. When I used to do PUA bullshit, I get lots of women. The simple fact is that women are garbage and you have to turn yourself into garbage to get them. Reply Future PUA June 12, 2016 well said. Reply Shaun November 17, 2015 This is a long read but if you read it all I guarantee you will get something out of it. I tried to read through all the comments but skipped some (sorry). Anyhow, the concept of attracting women is not “simple.” I do like that you (the writer of this article) touched on the fact that not all women are the same. This is VERY true. There’s no one-size-fits-all way to attract “any” woman but being able to figure out a woman and what she likes is pretty much half the battle. I honestly think the PUA community is detrimental to men but I will admit there are a few truths to their methods. However, like what others commented, PUA stuff is not only deceptive but PUA methods for most who practice them is a path that often leads to failure in the long-run. It really just comes down to these things: Confidence – #1 most important thing. This is what gravitates women towards you. You cannot fake confidence. Being cocky is not the same as being confident. First and foremost, you have to be comfortable in your own skin and if “being yourself” isn’t getting you women then improve yourself. IMPROVE, don’t change who you are completely. Also be real with yourself and face your own personal insecurities. Be Genuine – There really is such a thing as “women’s intuition” and unless you’re constantly only going after incredibly stupid girls, most (if not all) will see through your bullshit if you’re being fake and trying to be something you’re not. Being genuine applies to life within itself in terms of happiness, family, friends and your career. Positive Attitude – This is another thing you cannot fake. Do you like who you are? Do you like what you do? Do you have ambitions? These are the things that attract women. Look Your Best – Looks aren’t everything but you should strive to look your best. I’m not saying look like Brad Pitt or a professional athlete, but if you’re a skinny guy with a boney little ass, eat some protein and go lift some weights. If you’re a fat ass, lay off the garbage food and do some cardio. Substance – This goes along with being genuine. There has to be something about you that is desirable otherwise you’re just a 2-dimensional face in the crowd who can’t truly connect with people. And by substance I’m talking non-superficial stuff here. Having a six-figure salary, driving a nice car and owning a big house will not automatically give you substance. You have to really learn how to communicate with and connect. You have to be personable. The kind of person speak good about rather than the kind of person people talk shit about or worse, completely avoid. I wanted to publish a book a few years ago that would trump anyone else’s material pertaining to “game” and I intended for the book to be completely free so as to do away with all the other half-ass borderline scam artist material out there. But to be honest, that would be an uphill battle. The last thing I’ll say before ending this long rant is it’s important to figure out what you really want and why. You want to bang a lot of chicks and be a stud? Why? Because you feel (or felt) inadequate in the past compared to other men? Or were you played by a girl or two and want revenge on womankind? Or quite possibly maybe you do want to find true love. Only you know what you want. But the sad thing is most people don’t really acknowledge their heart’s true desire due to social conditioning and/or social pressure. Reply Jazmin December 14, 2015 The naturally attractive man…aka a “good man.” Basically, if you work to be a good person, get an education, strive towards a great career…these things will come. It’s pretty obvious that “PUA” is for guys who are very young, lower class, and without much guidance on how to grow up and *not* be a douchebag. The ironic part is that so much of this pickup advice makes guys act douchey. Reply Nick December 18, 2015 Jazmin, I agree with some of what you said but am in more agreement with Shaun even though his post was so wordy. Confidence, being “real” and having some kind substance is attractive/desirable. Women young and old tend to say they want “a good man” or a “nice guy.” I think some ladies are just programmed to say that. An educated man with a good career sounds nice but those are external traits and many educated men with good careers are boring, predictable, lacking in charisma, etc. Education and ambition are good attributes of course. But guys who really connect with females are neither douchey or generic, cookie cutter type, career-oriented men. The PUA stuff in general is a bit silly but the community of PUA folks wouldn’t have been around this long if it didn’t at least “sort of” work. Also, I read that a number of men who paid for those PUA workshops hosted by that weird guy Mystery were financially successful guys (like engineers or what not). Socially awkward people come in all social classes. Good men so to speak often get burned by women which causes these good men to get confused and reconsider their methods. Reply Anon December 18, 2015 Both men and women get burned by the opposite gender. Patience is a virtue. Acting like a sleaze attracts low quality women who are desperate, ignorant, suffer from a low self esteem, are constantly seeking your approval with hopes that maybe one day you’ll accept them and treat them with kindness. When that day never comes even those women leave you. If PUA methods are being used just for sex then that in itself is telling. And why has PUA been around for so long? Because sex sells. Like all the teenage boys using Axe body spray in hopes of attracting women like the advertisement on the back of the bottle, like all the mediocre tv shows that still have an audience because of a few raunchy scenes. It’s okay boys if you spend money trying to get laid because girls spend a crapload of money buying make up and so called beauty products in hopes that they’ll attract the right man. But man would I love to be the one selling these cosmetics and PUA methods. Bam, I’d be attracting people with my fan of money. Reply Nick December 19, 2015 I’m on board with everything you said except for PUA community being around simply because sex sells. The guys who sought this ‘PUA training’ or whatever and follow these methods like an instruction manual are not solely looking for sex. Many of these guys are simply socially awkward and probably got little or no attention from females and/or fell into a cycle of chasing so-called “hot chicks” only to end up feeling frustrated or as what a previous comment on this site said, experiencing feelings of inadequacy. It’s deeper than simply just wanting to get laid. It goes beyond body spray and cosmetics. PUA material been around this long because it appeals to a particular type of boy/man that has always been prevalent in society. The guy who for the life of him cannot get girls to swoon over him no mater how nice and sweet he is to them. The guy who bought into the concept of the nice guy getting the beautiful, popular girl that every guy wants simply because he stayed nice and sweet and ultimately proclaimed his love to her once he developed the courage (typical in romantic comedy movies). Reply Nikki March 7, 2016 I’m at a loss over this whole subject, and I know more about it than I ever thought I would. I’m a woman. I’m going to be 49 on my next birthday. I refuse to be ashamed of that as some in the PUA/MRA community think I should be. I found out this whole thing even exists when I dated a guy a lot younger than I was a couple of years ago. This whole thing is so mentally abusive, that by the time we came to the end, I looked my age. I didn’t going in. I loved him, and I treated him really well. Not so much in the other direction. As a Gen Xer, rather that a Gen Y, I have to say it blows my mind that this even started. How did this become a thing that human beings are so distant from each other, that they need instructions on basic interactions? The “Naturally attractive man” has it more together by comparison, but I can’t help but notice something: “Qualification A PUA qualifies women because he’s trying to find a way to convince her that he’s interested in something other than her looks. A naturally attractive Man qualifies because he has standards in his life and isn’t willing to compromise on them. Passing Tests A PUA has a series of tricks and techniques to pass her tests because he knows that he needs to appear strong for her to sleep with him. A naturally attractive Man passes her tests without even noticing that she’s testing him because he just keeps doing what he wants to, regardless of what she thinks. Comfort A PUA the moves into comfort because he knows that he needs to build a connection because attraction is fleeting. A naturally attractive Man decides that he wants to know more about a girl so asks leading questions that get her to open up. If he has something to share about himself, then he shares it as well. The gist of the quotes is, that in these two sections, I still hear a lot of control and a lot of entitlement. On the right track, but progress still needed. For what it’s worth, Gen X had no idea what was going on — we helped create tech but sort of got caught between two generations. You guys would so have loved living when we were kids and young adults in the 80s and early 90s. It was a freedom I wish you’d understand. See, people were people, and we just talked, and we felt attracted to whom we felt attracted to without perfection standards that the media has brainwashed you guys to have now. I really wish you could see. I really do. xo Reply Nick March 15, 2016 Nikki, I’m a fellow Gen X’er too (I’m 38). If you read my most recent post, I believe the PUA community was established by socially awkward guys who collectively “tried” to figure out the so-called mystery of girls OR guys who used to be socially awkward and found out how to get (certain types) of girls through mind games. It’s a cycle. Girls/young women play head games because while they’re young they have many men chasing them and though people hate to admit it, guys who tend to act too nice or even overbearing (showering girls with gifts and proclaiming love) often get pushed away by the very young women they adore. What were you like when you were between the ages of 18-25? Both personality-wise and looks. Just curious. Reply Donovan Corish February 11, 2017 Nicky, I know it’s almost a year since your comment, but, I get you. I get you because I am 45. Enough said. Reply Val April 30, 2016 What I gained from this article is the fact that it only takes a tiny shift in mindset to become a naturally attractive man. This sentence, ” A PUA focuses on taking things whilst a naturally attractive man focuses on creating something with her.” That sentence cause a million of tiny light bulbs to go off in my head. It makes complete sense too, because when we focus on taking something there’s a self fish intention behind it. But when we focus on creating something with someone, the mindset switches. Now it’s no longer about me taking from you, rather let’s create something together. The magic of teamwork triumphs that of being solo all the time. Great article! Reply Man September 6, 2016 How stupid you have to be to write a crap like this?! Do you even know how psychology works? How and more importantly when are basic social interaction skills acquired? Don’t you know that interaction with women is learned in family? Usually from how the father is treating the mother. Tell me, oh wise, natural, alpha, big dick male – if a boy has no father, where he can learn anything he would need to attract a girl? PUA is a way which can literally change such a boys life, teaching things noone will ever tell him. Reply imoretull September 8, 2016 I think your advice is too generic. PUA stuff is for guys who need a guide approaching women. Being confident about one’s career, finances, hobbies are not enough to get good with women. I have natural game, but always employ PUA techniques (in a non-structured way), because it seems to me, it works every time with women from all types of backgrounds. In can blow away a guy who is just confident self, because I know the psychology behind it. Just like being good at sales, being yourself is not enough if you want to be grand master. For me having fun with women, without hurting them, is my thing, just like someone who loves the guitar or likes his career. Of course I use genuine game, which is my thing. So it’s important what PUA skill set you are using. Like to just reiterate, even being the most confident guy in the world in all areas of life doesn’t mean much unless the ground work and hours of practice on women is experienced. PUA techniques is just a stepping stool, a guide to eventually being a “natural” or your advice. You can’t go from step 10 by skipping steps 1-9. Reply Beavisandbutthead September 9, 2016 As a woman when I go out to the bars, I can tell who the genuine guys are and who the PUAS are. I have my issues, you can call them “daddy issues” with my jerk father to this day so the last type of man I’m interested in is a jerk PUA. I’m fairly attractive (aren’t all women with daddy issues ? Seriously like what’s up with that?) and fairly confident. I steer clear of the PUAs and enjoy my time at the bar for what it is while the PUAS do their PUA things with other women. Everyone who is worked up about PUAs should realize that PUA tactics have been around for longer than some people realize (people use to call those men azzholez but now we call them PUAS and now men can learn to be Azzholez if they are interested in being one). Just stay away from them if you are a woman and men shouldn’t feel threatened by them or try to tell them that PUA culture is azzhole culture (the PUAS know). Reply imoretull September 15, 2016 PUA doesn’t need to be an asshole. You might talk the genuine guys who are skilled in PUA, you just don’t know it when you’re talking to them. If the guy has a script or using canned lines, this is a PUA that’s just not skilled, that’s all. Reply Beavisandbutthead September 15, 2016 All the PUAs I came across in the past were azzholez when they started negging me. I don’t talk to PUAs. I talk to the men who buy me drinks. Joe September 11, 2016 If you guys ever watched that reality show The Pick-Up Artist (very short-lived show), you probably cringed watching these apprentice dorky guys on the show get trained by that guy “Mystery” and his friend “Matador.” What Mystery did before he developed his “Mystery Method” workshops or whatever (to which guys were paying hundreds to attend), he pretty much just people watched and practiced on his own with regards to “attraction” or “seduction.” It’s pretty standard… if you want to be more comfortable with women, spend more time interacting with them and actually learning about them (in a non-creepy way) rather than paying some other guy to teach you basic stuff that will only get you so far. I agree with the two last comments to an extent. I do think confidence will take you far but of course you still have to be able to connect with people on a deeper level no matter what. And second, yes, for guys who grew up without their dads, sure, maybe adolescence was a bit more harsh but there are other types of male role models out there such as an older brother, an uncle a teacher or sports coach. I don’t want to trash PUA material too much because some of it is legit but I think for the most part, it is limited… you’re not likely to find the woman you’re going to marry using textbook PUA stuff. Or maybe I’m wrong… it just seems to superficial. Reply Bob September 21, 2016 I found this post because I came full circle in my development. In the beginning I was natural and this attracted a lot of quality women. However I lacked maturity and instead of working on my real flaws I started reading PUA articles. Suddenly I was having horrible luck with women. None of PUA stuff worked, at least not on the kind of women I go after. So I took some time to reall figured things out. Over time I just started being my old self again and suprise the women are coming back into my life. Only this time I’m more mature. Maybe I am just lucky I was given the proper instincts to get women. Following my instincts have never let me down. Sometimes I go quick, sometimes slow and it always works out because women respond differently. It’s a gut feeling I get. Reply guy March 22, 2017 nice write up, at the end of the day looks can definitely help, but being confident in your own skin can get you over the hump also Reply HerrEngel May 1, 2017 this list calls what beta males do PUA, and calls what PUAS do ‘natural man’. smart marketing tactic Reply Leave a Reply Cancel Reply Your email address will not be published.CommentName* Email* Website Notify me of followup comments via e-mail. You can also subscribe without commenting.